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Repeat broadcast: Original air date: 4-19-15
Less of a debate and more of a respectful discussion, Bob’s guest is Justin Lee, head of the Gay Christian Network. Justin made clear that GCN holds a wide array of opinion on the topic of homosexuality.
Regarding Justin’s interview with Bob Siegel: While agreeing that the church should treat people with same-sex feelings compassionately, and while also agreeing that there is a difference between temptation and sin, there was disagreement and interesting discussion on how to interpret Scriptural commands that call homosexuality a sin.
A NOTE FROM BOB SIEGEL:
As with all debates, there is never enough time to address every single subject brought up. While seeking to answer the passage in Romans which calls homosexuality unnatural, Justin appealed to other passages of Scripture, suggesting that they were talking about something temporary for their time. He pointed out that most Christians do not take such passages seriously today. As examples, Justin used the issue of slavery and the issue of gender, certain commands which restrict women from talking in church, and another command telling men and women how to wear their hair.
I did respond to the slavery issue. Time did not permit me to get back to the other one, since it came up as one of several points Justin was making and I wanted to let him finish according to protocol.
However, had time permitted, I would have addressed the gender issue in a manner similar to the slavery issue. Sometimes in Scripture we see tension. There are passages that command slaves to obey their masters and other passages that condemn slavery. The apostles would have been turning Christianity into a violent revolution had they instructed their slaves to disobey their masters. This does not mean they condoned slavery. Had they condoned it, they would not have renounced it.
The gender issue is similar. On one hand, we see several commands for women to be subservient to men. On the other hand, the Bible gives us examples of women in leadership and tells us that in the church there is “neither slave nor free, male nor female” Galatians 3:28.
The point I was making (and this point came out clearly at the end of the program) is that there is no such tension with the issue of same-sex relationships. We do not have one set of verses condoning homosexuality and another set of verses condemning the practice.
For a fuller discussion on this subject, showing the similarities between the treatment of women and the treatment of slaves in New Testament days, I offer this article based on my book, I’d Like To Believe In Jesus, but…
Is the Bible a chauvinistic book?
As for the naturalness of men having short hair and women having long hair; this is an example of a root principle with temporary cultural expression. Where as acceptable hair length for each gender may change from culture to culture, the idea is for men to look masculine and women to look feminine. What looks feminine (too long on men) for one society may look different to another. But the concern about masculinity and femininity remains the same. And so, when Paul says that long hair is not natural for a man, I accept that, the idea being that looking feminine is not natural for a man.
Comments from listeners:
From Michaelene Fredenburg
“Great job! Really thought provoking stuff.”
From Patti Spiegel
“Bob, you did a great job yesterday.”
From Veila Gonzalez
“Great interview, not enough time.”
From Fran Campbell
“Okay….I just listened to the program! Two things: Kudos to Justin for being brave to answer questions and give his feedback on such a sensitive, yet vital conversation. Secondly, to you Bob on being such a gracious host. You were not there to attack anyone. I saw you as a bridge between two volatile sets of people……the religious “puritans” and the aggressive gay community. My take on the program is that it was very successful. You both were sincere, gracious, and respectful. Thank you, thank you for kindly approaching to bridge the gap and teach us to create an atmosphere of Christlike love. After all, like you said, who among us is not dealing with issues of a sinful nature? I understood what Justin was saying about longing for someone to grow old with. It can be painful to be alone (I know fully), but we are all to remain celibate before marriage, and faithful during marriage. My thought was to the married person who is in a loveless marriage. Does that give them license to seek out someone else? Not if they trust God. He is STILL in the miracle business! Anyway…….I really enjoyed the program.”
From Greg Jarvis
“Well done, my friend. I have a lot to learn about finding and highlighting the common ground first, whether with friend or foe or wife or stranger. You sounded supportive, gracious and friendly. This would be a good two part talk due to the amount of info or just cut down on the bumper music. I would have liked to have heard more about scripture and the dialogue/debate surrounding that. However, he’s got a Website and book if I do desire to know his perspective. The value from this show for me was how you modeled respect SOOO important in our Christian community and for each of us. I know the audience heard that and I have to believe Justin heard and felt that too.”
From Mike Fredenburg
“Bob, really good job. Definitely came across as compassionate yet not backing down on correctly interpreting Scripture!”
From Tedde Klingenhofer
“Good job, Bob. I just pray he’d stop twisting the Word of God to suit himself and his friends.
He needs to understand that “TRUTH does not care about your opinion.”
From Larry Good
“Great summary … especially your wrap-up that there are no verses condoning homosexuality so the Bible is not conflicted thereon.”
Anonymous comment:
“I just finished listening to your program with Justin Lee. What a wonderful example of a respectful dialogue on a tense subject. You both set a model all Christians should follow. The issue is currently the hot topic at our church and as we prepare to enter turbulent waters I wish we could all do it this way. I’m going to recommend my pastor give it a listen. I just wish you had had twice as much time to continue the discussion!”
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